Dismantling Of Faith

Big Bang

In the middle of a discussion thread on an Atheist blog-site, about the above title, ‘Ron’ showed up.  The following is my part of the amusement and puzzlement he caused.

Have you never read the laws of Thermodynamics, you can not create something out of nothing. Most sciencies are best guess answers. Even Darwin at the end of the day realized there was an intelligent design. Even Stephen Hawking, the physicist, knew that there was a intelligent design at work. Faith can be proven but not through man.

After the author explained that he was an engineer, we got

You can’t create something out of nothing, you don’t understand, how do you get past that.

After contradicting half a dozen commenters, and stating ‘facts’ that science clearly contradicts, he dropped

I might of misspelled the word it is a belief that everything has a spirit trees plants sun stars ect. It predates mans religion’s by thousands of years. Look around n you see the same belief structure. Faith is synonymous with belief this has lasted for thousands of years. It showed up n sumerian cuneiform about 6000 bc.

After another half dozen desperate ‘create something/nothing’ assertions, I thought that I might step in.

If the Big Bang Theory is even vaguely valid, In the Beginning, EVERYTHING existed…. every erg of energy, every quantum entanglement, every sub-atomic particle! All that has happened in the intervening 14 Billion years, is some minor rearranging.
If you want to go back before the bang happened, there was no Time, there was no Space, and there were no rules. Even now, sub-atomic particles appear to be winking into and out of existence.
There may be a parallel dimension, or an alternative Place???, which is a cosmic junkyard, and crap is just getting flushed into our Universe. But it could all occur without the need for or presence of an unverifiable God.

I got 4 likes for that comment, and this reply.

I will play your circle of reasoning before the big bang there was black matter. Black matter has a structure they just can,t figure it out. The cern collider is looking for what is called the God particle. Your argument falls to the ground.

I calmly responded

‘Inside the Universe,’ before the Big Bang occurred, no matter existed as such, including Dark Matter. If you are positing that Dark Matter exists/existed outside the universe, I am unaware of any scientific theory that it does, but you have provided a theoretical place, and a thing, where you have intimated there is ‘Nothing,’ for something to be created from, but still no proof of, or need for, “God.”
BTW; The CERN collider apparently has found the Higgs boson. As a snide, sarcastic dig at religious fundamentalists, it has been nicknamed The God Particle, because it seems to do what fundies insist only God can do, as usual, with no proof, only desperate hope.
It seems to be your argument which has collapsed.

I got 2 likes, and this rebuttal.

You quit learning there is a smaller particle then the Higgs boson. They are revamping the collider to find the next smallest particle which they call the God particle. Besides of which if you remember simple mathematics to negatives make a positive. That is Black matter it is not complicated.

The thread went on for 284 comments, at least half either from, or directed at, ‘Ron’ and his inane claims.  I decided that it was time to bow out with

The Higgs boson is called the God Particle because it is believed to give mass to matter. It does not automatically give up that title and pass it on, simply because a smaller particle(s) exists.
If a smaller particle is proven, it is unlikely that is comes from the Higgs. Even if it does, the complete, assembled boson is still required to impart mass, and the title remains.
Given the seriousness and complexity of the subject matter, it is difficult to take a discussion seriously, when the comments are replete with punctuation, spelling, usage, and construction errors. I’m done, as are you.

I didn’t want to descend to, what might be construed as a personal attack, but, honestly, I’ve had better submissions from 5th graders….but this guy appeared to believe that he understood Cosmology, Astrophysics, The Big Bang, and thermodynamics, when he couldn’t even correctly assemble a simple sentence or argument.

I recently published a post titled Desperation, in which I showed the amusing and troubling problems of trying to have a calm, reasoned discussion between Science and Christianity.  It can be done – just not if desperate, Chicken Little, hyper-Apologetics like ‘Ron’ are allowed to range free.  😯

16 thoughts on “Dismantling Of Faith

  1. The fact that he didn’t know the term God Particle was sarcasm says it all.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Archon's Den says:

      I’m going to compose a post about people like this, who believe that, if they have a word or definition for a concept, it proves that it is real, and they are always correct. 😦


  2. jim- says:

    Did you happen to view Ron’s site? Genuine crack pot. Hateful and conspiracy theory abounds and anti woman


    • Archon's Den says:

      I didn’t dare. I was already woozy from his roller-coaster twists of logic. Was ‘Dismantling of Faith’ one of your posts? As I say, I was woozy. I should have provided a link. You post so much solid, good stuff, maybe next time. 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

      • jim- says:

        No worries at all Archon. Thanks for quoting it I’m either way. That is one of my favorite posts. I’ve thought about reposting it now that Ron and Loy are gone.


  3. Dale says:

    I am with you. It is hard to take someone seriously when they don’t know the simple basics of grammar. Arguing with zealots of any kind is tiresome; arguing with uneducated zealots is a waste of time.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. joeabbott says:

    I’d learned the story of calling the Higgs boson the “God particle” along the lines of what can be found out on wikipedia:
    “This boson is so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our final understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive, that I have given it a nickname: the God Particle. Why God Particle? Two reasons. One, the publisher wouldn’t let us call it the Goddamn Particle, though that might be a more appropriate title, given its villainous nature and the expense it is causing. And two, there is a connection, of sorts, to another book, a much older one…”

    While my personal views don’t align identically with yours, I do appreciate the patient and respectful tone you took in your exchange with Ron. His contributions appear vexing and trollish … hard to have a constructive conversation. That said, don’t ask me to take Ron’s side of the discussion … I’m dizzy just reading it!


    • Archon's Den says:

      Ron seemed more than a little dizzy as he delivered his opinions. 😆
      Do you know the name of the physicist you quoted? It seemed to me to be somewhat of a committee decision. 😳


  5. Jim Wheeler says:

    Right. If there is a Creator, he’s got us on autopilot, no interference. We’re on our own.

    However, I fully admit that I cannot for the life of me figure out why anything exists, much less life. I’ve had a number of online discussions about this and I always come to the same conclusion. The universe exists and to ask “why” implies that there is a reason. There may be no answer to this anthropomorphic question, it just does. Frustrating isn’t it?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Archon's Den says:

      I gotta agree with your first line! 😯 I don’t see that the “fingers in every pie” God exists. A version of ‘The Watchmaker God,’ maybe.
      You’re far more curious than me. I’m more pragmatic. While it would be nice to know, I’m willing to deal with the ‘reality’ that I see. We may be trapped in the Matrix, but unless and until someone offers me that red pill/blue pill deal, I avoid the frustration with concrete, day-to-day life. 🙂


  6. […] my Dismantling of Faith post, then all of these, in one week. Does nobody pay attention to the details of reality anymore? It […]


  7. grogalot says:

    The universe exists and in so far as we can tell, it is 100% natural. If there is a supernatural realm or substance or power, it is not possible for “it” to affect the natural world because if “it” did it wouldn’t be supernatural.
    I saw an interesting statement the other day: “If you can’t measure it, it doesn’t exist.” GROG


    • Archon's Den says:

      Much like the relationship between many Bible-thumpers and reality. 😯
      Was that quote from Lord Kelvin? (The guy who built the Kelvinator refrigerators 😆 )


  8. johnsonk51 says:

    The Higgs Boson was called the God particle as a joke by some of the scientists who theorized it. Apparently we as a society aren’t ready for jokes…


    • Archon's Den says:

      Increasing numbers of us are ready for a joke, but many of Those Who Huddle Beneath Salvation On A Stick have their sense of humor removed, to make room for more Blind Faith. There are lots of jokes like ‘Ron” infesting the blogosphere…. though many of them are more like April Fools pranks. 😆

      Liked by 1 person

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