Is Atheism A Bad Idea?

Atheism

He was an Atheist for 40 years, then one day, he became Catholic. (Or so he claims. I suspect a troll.) Not A Catholic – merely Catholic. He and I had some words. They grew too numerous for a comments column…. so here we are again.

And how miserable does atheism make you? Choosing it is a bit like choosing to be fatherless in the world. Left to your own devices.

For someone claiming to be Atheist for forty years, his assumptions and questions are bewildering. He seems to imply that morality must be applied from outside. A moral framework must be accepted internally, even if it is supplied from the outside. I know “Good Catholics” who believe in divorce and remarriage, gay marriage, and priests being married – all ‘sins’ to the church. Atheism does not make people miserable. It frees them to enjoy the natural beauty of the world and the Universe, revel in the companionship of friends and family, and be proud of how much better they’ve made and left it all.

He seems to feel that he needs some kind of social and moral crutch. Most Atheists want to be left to their own devices. They have the strength of will and character to deal with life and reality on their own. Is he too stupid or lazy to formulate and apply his own moral code??

True Atheists simply do not see convincing evidence of the existence of God, or gods. They do not “choose” to be Atheist. Anyone who claims they do, or that someone else did, is mistaken and often an intentional liar.

Do you have children? Do you have a set of values? How do you pass them on? Do you even want to pass them on or do you want to just let the thousands of ancestors of yours who struggled to survive only for you to say, “eff it, my line is OUT”? (He wants me to continue to be Christian – and fruitful – simply to please my dead predecessors??!)

I have a set of values – Do unto others, as you would have others do unto you. – which is neither original, nor exclusive, to the Bible. Do the greatest good for the greatest number. I passed them on to my children, and now to our grandson – who received a small award in college for his assistance to others. I not only told them to aid and be kind to others. I showed them how, by doing it myself. From empirical observation, our practiced moral values are better than many ‘Good Christians.’

I certainly feel my/our moral values should be passed on. Some of my ancestors were deeply religious. Others were completely not, but I’m sure that all of them would agree and be proud of me and the good I do.

I hear you and agree with most of what you say, however, I don’t condemn all of Christianity because some people abuse it or make it look bad. But let me ask you this question, beyond those phrases like “do unto others” how do you guide someone to resolve complicated moral issues? Do you ever talk with your children about morals? Is that enough to lead a person through every moral quagmire he or she might face? Not in my view.

He doesn’t say why he feels that’s not enough. Perhaps I’m simplistic, but I do. Adultery is wrong – not necessarily a sin – but wrong. Her husband may beat her, or ignore her. That makes it more complicated, but that’s social, not moral. It’s still wrong. You wouldn’t want to be her husband, nor her to be your wife. You’re not doing unto others, nor the greatest good for the greatest number.

I grew up in an atheist household, and we had some discussion of morals but it was very infrequent. Until atheism offers me the discipline of continually working to be a good person, I decided I’m done with it. And given that atheists or secularists tend to not marry or have kids at nearly the rates of religious people, how do you expect your values to live on beyond a generation or two?

I don’t view life – or religion – as a contest to be won. I hope to influence my descendants, and society in general, by my example. I would not dare to attempt to impose my code on others. People who do that are called ISIS. I believe my opinion to be the best, but if it dies out after I do, that’s not my problem.

Unlike Religion, Atheism has no real structure. There is no Pope, no hierarchy, no Bible, no tenets, no dogma, no sin, and no handy rule-book with a ready-made list of acceptable actions. People have to work that out on their own. He makes no mention of belief in God, Jesus Christ, salvation, Heaven, or everlasting life. He just wants someone to hold his moral hand and lead him down the Holy Garden path. It’s like someone wanting to save the Earth from Global Warming, but buying a Hummer because it has cool wheels.

Hummer

Jim says

“The reason you returned to religion is self interest. That’s how it always is. Just because you failed to find a meaningful life outside of faith, you have joined the herd to find solace. I, and many like me, find complete satisfaction finding our own way in the world. You on the other hand, profess belief in something you don’t believe, to have community. That is hypocrisy and lacks integrity.

There is no meaning but what you make it. Searching for it inside of prearranged dogma is cheating yourself of possibilities. Spirituality comes in billions of options that are quite fulfilling outside the plug-and-play religions. It’s even true inside religion. Everyone just picks the parts they want to believe anyway. Your mind has now been hijacked by the herd.”

 

41 thoughts on “Is Atheism A Bad Idea?

  1. Atheists think one should understand a thing before one believes. There are things you will never understand. But you believe. Science just imagines how the planets came about. They could be right or they could be wrong. Nothing is certain. Some things we must belief in faith.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Archon's Den says:

      Most Atheists think that there should be a certain amount of compelling evidence before they ‘believe.’ I don’t understand how digital cameras work, but I believe they do because I know that there are scientists who use optics and electronics to make it happen.
      Science does not just imagine how planets formed. There are certain implacable laws. Mathematics and the Law of Universal Gravitational Attraction insist that even tiny particles of matter will eventually come together into globes. The Laws of Astrophysics state that, if the globes reach a certain mass, gravitation will cause fusion, and they will become stars.
      The Universe contains such laws, which (so far) are unchanging, and unchangeable. If a ‘God’ created a Universe with these laws for us to find and deal with, yet produced it in some supernatural fashion, then He’s a liar. 🙄 😯

      Liked by 1 person

      • Hahahaha! We can talk of laws. How do we prove the laws. Scientists have believed things for years just for other so-called evidence to come and cancel the first one. “will eventually come together.” How do we prove this. We will not live forever to know if this is true or false. And what tells us that new findings will not cancel this so-called law some day. I think we must admit that the human mind is limited. There is a power that is more than us. We call him God. If we were all and all, we should determine aspects of our lives like birth, sex, death. Any way each one is free to believe what they like. For me, I believe in God.

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      • Archon's Den says:

        If I hold a pen above my desk, and release it, it falls toward the desk (and the center of the Earth) each and every time. The day that it falls UP I will consider looking for a God. 😕

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    • Theists? Believe that they have all the answers. Yet do they? Let’s look at Christianity for instance. There are over 4,200 denominations of Christianity. Each one says? They are right and all the others are wrong.

      Christians state their bible? Is the unearing word of their god, written by their god through humans. But? There are over 500 versions of their book called the bible.

      Roman Catholic Christians? Insist that Protestant Christians? Are not Christians. Then? Protestant Christians? Will state that not only are Roman Catholics are NOT Christians? But unless you belong to their specific sect of Protestantism? Then YOU are not a Christian.

      And? They went to wars and slaughtered each other over this all. Like the Thirty Year War between Protestants and Catholics that left the population decimated and it took three generations to come back from that war. And that? Is just one of their many wars against each other.

      Even THEY cannot agree on what is right in all of this. If this was the ONE TRUE RELIGION OF ALL OF US? Then there would not be? All the different versions of it, nor all the different versions of their book.

      And? It is the same for the other Abrahamist believers. The Muslims? Same, the Jews? Same. They all have different sects, different versions of worship, and? They literally kill each other? If you do not believe in a certain way. The Sunnis and Shites Muslims have been butchering and slaughtering each other? For centuries. Same with certain sects of Jews.

      So? How can ANY Abrahamist say they are right? When they cannot even agree among themselves? Who is right and? Slaughter each other in such loving and Christian, Muslim and Jewish ways huh?

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    • Let me ask you this. Do you think any of us Native Americans, who had Christianity forced upon us? Are really Christians? We were told either you convert or you die. And? Christians committed the worst case of mass extermination of a race of people in all the recorded history of humans under their ChristoTaliban Manifest Destiny theology.

      How can anyone be called a Christian? Especially when they are basically brainwashed from birth to believe in this by their parents, by society? Society says? If you do not believe in a god? Then YOU are the evil one, the immoral one, etc.

      Yet? Christians who proclaim themselves the most moral of all of us?

      Committed mass murder against the Pagans in forced conversion programs, slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Pagans, putting to brutal deaths Pagan priests and priestesses, destroying their Pagan temples and ways. Heck, they even beat to death on the spot? Pagan children found playing with Pagan statutes as if a child was playing with a doll. And? Did 9 brutal Crusades into Northern Paganlands.

      Committed mass murder many times against the Jews. Blamed the Jews for the Black Death and slaughtered whole towns of Jews. When they did their Crusades to the Holy Lands? They wiped out whole towns of Jews along the way and once they got to Jerusalem? They murdered more Jews and even fellow Christians than they did Muslims.

      Another great example of their forced conversion program was their Crusades against the Cathars where they literally wiped out all the Cathars. AKA Albegensian Crusades.

      Then? Their forced conversion programs against us Native Americans in North, Central and South America. wiping out literally tens of millions of Native Americans. Of course? Christians actually still justify this, or excuse it, or minimize it, or even say? We Natives deserved this.

      So, how can we say people are actually Chrsitian when Christianity has been literally forced on humanity through forced conversions and mass genocides?

      Like

    • Here are a few more questions for you to ponder too.

      How come the Christians changed so much of the Jewish theology to create their Christianity?

      Jews never taught the story of hell in their theology. They talked about Sheol, which is quite different than what the Christians speak of in their afterlife.

      Jews said that Jesus was NOT their Messiah. Their Messiah? Was a warrior Messiah. He was to come and set the Jews free from the bondage of slavery and to fight against the Romans, destroy them and start a new Jewish nation.

      Certainly not what Christians say huh?

      Again and again? Christians proclaim their religion? Orignates with the Jews. They use the Jewish OT, their Torah. But? Christians changed much of the theology of the Jews from which they say they came from.

      So how can any Christian say their theology is right when even the Jews who are the originators of the theology? Was changed so much by the Christians?

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      • Archon's Den says:

        It amuses/disturbs me when “Good Christians’ declare that Roman Catholics are not ‘true Christians.’ They were the Mother Church, yet each claim that the other is wrong, and only they are right.
        It amuses/disturbs me even more, when a ‘Good Catholic’ declares that the infallible Pope is wrong, and their opinion is the correct one. 🙄

        Liked by 1 person

      • I’ve been battling a psycho Christian for the last week over this. Oh boy talk about a real mental midget moron.But? According to him? There are no True Christians all those Christians that slaughtered Pagans? Those were not Christians. All the ones who slaughtered us Native Americans? Those were not Christians. The ones who go out and rape kids? Those are not Christians.

        And what is really, really funny? Their whole blog is one hatefest against us atheists, full of BS. But this Christian? Demanded of me constantly? That I turn the other cheek, that I love the Christians, that I pray for the Chrsitians and that I do not speak out against their vile and evil christians cause that makes me? Judgmental and a hater of Christians.

        You just cannot win with these mental midget moron ChristoTalibans for Christ.

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    • Archon's Den says:

      You may say it. The Christians don’t hold exclusive rights. It’s a Hebrew word which means “So be it”, or “Let it be.” 🙂

      Like

      • rautakyy says:

        Haha. Exellent post. Amen might be a loan from Egypt to the Hebrews, where the name of Amon, the hidden god of fire and sun whose true name was unknown to men, was evoked for the closing of deals. (Burning bush anyone?)

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  2. Rivergirl says:

    I’ve been an atheist all my life. Even rebelled against Sunday school as a young child. I am happily married, morally sound and rarely miserable. I have nothing against religion and faith if it provides comfort and solace for those who need it. I do take issue with the church’s desire to eradicate free thinking and scientific fact for doctrine, dogma and the greatest story ever told. Story being the optimum word.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. David Davis says:

    An atheist becoming a Catholic–never thought of that one before.

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  4. jim- says:

    If you choose to believe, you have abandoned your integrity. If it is merely a choice, it has no substance

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    • Archon's Den says:

      This guy wasn’t too bad. Misguided and confused possibly, but I got the feeling that he was basically truthful. This week I encountered two Christian Apologist counter-arguments that left me aghast – and after 75 years of a full and interesting life, I am not easily shocked.
      Thanx for letting me use your comment as part of my post. I’m so glad that I asked for permission, and told you, when I used it. 😛

      Liked by 1 person

  5. johnsonk51 says:

    “If you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire.” -Friedrich Nietzsche

    Like

  6. Sightsnbytes says:

    Eventually all atheists become Catholic, it happens the minute they realize their fate…then they pray away. Relax, we are a welcoming crowd.

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    • Archon's Den says:

      If it makes you happy to believe that, keep at it. In actual fact, No, it doesn’t! Aside from a few who panic at the last minute, like Emperor/Pope Constantine, most Atheists grudgingly face whatever fate, as the unbelievers they were.
      The wife’s sister, The Sister, was a missionary in Ecuador. She refused to give a $500 micro-loan to one woman, to buy a sewing machine that might have got her out of poverty, because the woman refused to leave a Protestant sect, and become a Catholic. That is not “Welcoming,” that is religious extortion. 😯 🙄

      Like

      • Sightsnbytes says:

        This is one example. being a ‘sister’ does not make her a good person. plus she could have got the woman a hundred dollar jobbie at Walmart. I always tell my atheist friends (I have two) I will see them at the ‘Gate’

        Like

  7. Sightsnbytes says:

    no stranger than a conservative becoming a liberal

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    • Archon's Den says:

      And I still hate Belinda Stronach. It just shows how some politicians favor opportunity over loyalty. I still think the Liberals got the dog.
      Winston Churchill crossed the floor, and changed parties, to ensure England defended itself against Hitler. After the war, he re-crossed the floor and went back to his original party, to ensure, what he felt, was the best recovery theme. Now THAT takes moxie. 🙂

      Like

  8. My wife and I are Atheists. But we got married in an Anglican church because it was small, quaint and 100+ years old. We have three children named Random, Darwin and Theory. We baptized them catholic in case they choose religion. Over time, each of our children have proclaimed to be atheist as well- all while still respecting those who believe in various forms of “God”. They are all teenagers and follow exactly what you stated- “Do Unto Others…” Being kind doesn’t need to be exclusive to any one secular denomination.

    Like

    • Archon's Den says:

      Good for you, and your children!
      What country were you married in?
      I wouldn’t have had them baptized, in case they never decided to accept religion, or could have decided to do so in a church of their own informed choice. By having them baptized Catholic, the Church now ‘owns’ them. Even if they want to become Baptist or Presbyterian, OFICIALLY they can not do so. 😯

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      • We are proudly Canadian. We also baptized our children for a selfish reason- because of the school system differences in our area. There is Public Schools, Choice Schools and Private Religion Based Schools. The public school system is mediocre, and offers a minimum education. We were deciding between schools that offered the best education- the local Catholic one had one of the highest GPAs besides the Fine Arts School that we ended up getting our kids into (after seven years on a waiting list). My wife and I wanted the best opportunities for our children, and in order to be considered for the private catholic school we had to baptize the kids. The things parents will do…

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      • Archon's Den says:

        I too am Canadian. I suspected such of you because of the ‘Anglican Church’ reference. They are not common in the US, and both Britain and Australia commonly refer to Church of England, or CoE.
        As long as the kids get a good education, and good jobs…. I see this happening locally. Protestant students are being accepted in Catholic schools. If enough parents get wise to this trick, the teacher/student ratio will deteriorate, and all schools will produce the same educational outcomes. 😳

        Liked by 1 person

  9. Interesting how Christians insist we atheists cannot be moral unless we believe in their god and Jesus and Christianity huh?

    And? When you expose the real “morality” of Christians? All of their wars, their mass genocides, their Crusades, their hate of lgbts, atheists, Pagans and others? Or you talk about all their disgusting pedo pervert priests and pastors? The first thing they pull out of their proverbial asses? Is the No True Scotsman and the False Equivalency bs apologetics.

    They will proclaim that none of these who did these things against Pagans, Native Americans, LGBTS and many others? Were not Christians. Cause Christians do not do those things.

    Literally? Billions have been put to brutal deaths by Christians since they rose to power in 322 AD. They committed mass genocide forced conversion programs against the Pagans. But? They will either proclaim? Those were not Christians or? They were Christians defending themselves against the evil Pagans who were supposedly persecuting them. Because? The Pagans decided they were not simply going to lay down for Christians to wipe them out.

    Same with us Native Americans. They invaded our countries, and? Under their Christian Manifest Destiny bs? They proceeded to commit the worst act of mass extermination in recorded human history against a group of people. And? Again? They will either proclaim? These people who did this? Were not Christians or again? The “innocent Christians” were just defending themselves against the savages, us Native Americans.

    And what is really funny? They really meltdown when they demand me, a Cherokee and Blackfeet to accept their Jesus and become a Christian, when I tell them? Telling a Native American to become a Christian? Is comparable to your telling a Jew to join the Nazi party or a black person to join the KKK, but they sure cannot understand that now can they? Oh no.

    They persecute lgbts and demand their brutal murders, based on their cherry picking Levitical and Deuteronomy verses, but? Oh no you cannot demand all their Christian adulterers be treated like they want to treat lgbts, because their Jesus came and did away with all that. except against lgbts.

    Or? If you demand? All their hundreds of thousands of Christian priests and pastors busted for raping kids be put to death like they demand lgbts be put to death, or atheists be put to death, or any of the others they hate on and demand be put to death? They will call you a hater, a persecutor of Christians and how dare you demand we be treated as we treat you.

    Ahhh the hypocrisy of Chrsitians and Christianity. It is never ending and stopped amazing me a long time ago.

    Like

    • Archon's Den says:

      Matt Dillahunty’s favorite topic to rant about is slavery, in the Bible. Mine is the 500 years of Inquisition and horrible tortures dreamed up by insecure bullies. 😈

      Like

      • I am 60. I have been studying Christianity since I was 12. I did in fact? Went to Bangor Theological Seminary and earned a masters degree in biblical studies and comparative religion. Of course? I actually became an atheist? While I was doing this.

        I studied their god. What a disgusting being that one is. He orders his followers to smash the bodies of infants and children against rocks to murder them.
        He sends a she bear to rip to shreds 42 kids for making a joke about the prophet Elisha’s bald head.
        He ordered a whole town destroyed except for the virgins where his Tribe of Benjamin then raped and forced these girls to marry them under Levitical law and when they did not get enough (400 virgins from Jabesh Gilead apparently were not enough) they then kidnapped the dancing virgin girls of Shiloh and did the same to them.
        He had parents? Eat their own children and even said he was going to do so again.

        This is their god, they tell us has the right ot judge us but we cannot judge him nor can we condemn him for all the evil all the rapes, the murders of fetuses, infants and children etc because hey, that is their god who is always merciful, loving, kind, just, etc.

        And? I know everything there is about?
        Their 9 Crusades into Northern Paganlands.
        Their 5 Crusades to Jeruasalem.
        Their Albegensian or Cathar Crusades.
        All about their Inquisitional period.
        EVERYTHING they did in their mass extermination against us Native Americans.
        All about their Christian genocides in Bosnia and Somolia and a few other countries.
        Spent over a decade exposing over one hundred thousand of their Christian pedophiles.

        And? A whole lot more.

        And boy do the Christians hate me for it. They literally had me kicked off of Facebook for it.

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      • Archon's Den says:

        There is none so blind, as he who will not see. They imagine themselves blameless, and don’t like to be reminded of their failings, and the failings of any who claim to be Christians. 😛

        Like

      • Their vile and evil hypocrisy knows no bounds.

        I had another atheist blog called ChristoFascist Slammer where I slammed these hypocrite psycho ChristoFascists. I would post dozens of blog postings on their insanity of how they want to put to brutal deaths atheists, lgbts and others.

        They got no problem, posting on their own blogs, all of their videos of hate and death. Like say Theodore Shoebat. Now? One scum named Michael Crook? I posted about his hate. And what did he do? He demanded under some damn DCMA law because it exposed his hate? To have my blog removed and guess what? WordPress did.

        And? He does this to ANY blogger and even news agencies like the Associated Press who reports on him and apparently by this law? Those postings and news reports? Must be removed.

        BUT? Try to get WordPress to remove their violent filled, hate filled, bigoted, murderous blogs and WordPress, or even Blogger or any other web hosting site? Will not remove them. But? If you are a blogger who reports on all of this and stand up to these psychos? Your blog will be removed in a heartbeat for violations.

        They can spew all the hate speech, all their theology of how we atheists, or how lgbts, or how we Native Americans, or how Pagans all deserved to be put to brutal deaths, and no one? Has a real right to stand up to them because they hide behind their Christotaliban version of Christianity and then? Scream how you are persecuting and hating on them for standing up to them.

        The Southern Baptist Convention does the same with stories about their pedophiles who get busted. A news organization reports on it? They go after them and force them to remove the stories.

        Yeah, they can scream, foaming at the mouth, like rabid dogs, how Christians should have the right to put to brutal deaths lgbts, atheists, Pagans and others, but don’t YOU DARE throw that back into their faces and say as they sow? So should they reap and as they want to do unto atheists, lgbts and others should be done unto them, cause then? That is hating on Christians and persecuting them for their beliefs.

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  10. Reblogged this on Atheist Militants Rising and commented:
    Interesting how Christians insist we atheists cannot be moral unless we believe in their god and Jesus and Christianity huh?

    Like

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