Beneath my What If? What If? What If? post, Barabbas himself became an Apologist For Jesus, and left this extended comment.
Allow me to apologize for my brothers. I believe God gives every person a choice to believe or not. I’m not responsible for your choice and though it saddens me, I must respect your choice. May God meet you where you are and draw you to Himself “with chords of kindness” not clever or manipulative arguments or threats of eternal punishment. Have a wonderful day and again, I apologize for my fellow Christians that may have pushed too hard and far without respecting your freedom. – Barabbas
One: Do not apologize for others. It only highlights their misdeeds, mistakes, and contradictions. It also makes both of you appear weak and needy. Be honest. Only apologize for your own errors.
Two: Do not ever label my disbelief as merely a choice! Never have I suddenly just chosen to be a petulant, rebellious asshole. My Atheism is as fundamentally part of my being as my gorgeous brown eyes. I have been an Atheist longer than you have been alive. I got that way, not through choices and options, but by observing Reality as it presents itself to me. The reality is, I see no God/gods.
Three: A little convincing evidence of the existence of your specific God, and that you are somehow privy to what He/She/It/They will and will not do, would be a lot more useful than your vaguely-expressed wish and hope that someday – somehow – your Reality-impaired pet entity, will finally show up to see me, and validate all your unproven assumptions.
There was a reason that saccharine was banned. Your ‘all sweetness and light and love and kindness’ delivery is, perhaps, a little less grating than those Apologists who promise me Hell and eternal damnation if I don’t agree with them. At least they have the courage of their convictions, and are not afraid to express them. Yours is cloying, and sickly sweet. I feel religious diabetes developing.
Four: Are you in the church choir, or should the line read, “with cords of kindness”? You promised me no tricks or threats, but that sounds suspiciously like church BDSM – a little God bondage. 😳
Five: You must lead a sheltered life, if you think that Mr. Torpedo-Victim did more than ruffle my hair. I have engaged with Bible-thumpers who would have him for breakfast. I feared none of them on a philosophy and logic basis. The only reason I have hung back from some, is the modern, technological concern about flaming, hacking and doxxing. Some of those good, loving, Christians quickly forget that ‘turn the other cheek’ command, when their beliefs are refuted.
Online Christian debaters give me as much freedom as I give them. I allow them every opportunity to make foolish, irrational claims, and they let me point out the errors in their arguments, and make fun of their presentations. See, everybody has fun. 👿
He probably did mean “chords”, with the whole heavenly angel choir thing. God’s voice is supposed to be sweet music, or so I’ve heard. Anybody who blowtorches two cities because His delegate couldn’t find a decent man (did he check among the women?) hardly sounds like a musician – except maybe Ozzy Osbouurne.
By the by, that whole statement reeked of “good cop” after the others condemning you were “bad cops”. Kinda sounded like the apology was a soft sell…. 😉
That’s why I maintain loose association with the Christian religions. I figure that, if I am wrong and there is a GOD, I can “find” Him with a deathbed conversion, and nab a “get out of Hell free” card. Ya gotta work all the angles, buddy! 😀
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Barabbas sounds/writes young. I get the feeling that he’s none too sure. He’d like to believe, but is embarrassed by stupid arguments, and the assholes who present them. 🙂
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56yrs young and 41yrs a christian. much experienced in the world and christianity. thx. not “young” at all
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What were you before you became a Christian?
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i was a 15yr old child raised in a non practicing catholic home. no bible, no church, no mention of jesus at all except for the few times as a really young boy… 5 and under… we were taken to easter mass with the grandmother. i was, as they say, ‘tabla raza’ (if that’s how you spell that) as one could be. of course i could be mistaken. but i’m not interested in defending myself or my exerience of christianity other thatn my original answer to the charge of “writing young” as if i were young and inexperienced as a person. i admit, i took that as a slight passive agressive insult, for which i have forgiven you. lol of course i have. 🙂
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Of course you’ve forgiven me. 😛
I said that you “write young” – with childlike grace, awe, and reverence, – not ‘childish’. That’s an observed fact, and a valid opinion. I didn’t even know that you would read that comment, so it couldn’t be passive-aggressive anything.
Brigham Young said, “He who takes offense when none is offered, is a fool, and he who takes offense, even when offence is offered, is also a fool. You went out of your way to infer an insult, so that you could feel/look good by forgiving me. That seems childish at any age. 🙄
BTW: Before you accepted Christ, you were an Atheist. How did it feel? 😆
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Before I accepted Christ, I was simply not a Christian. Really had no personal position or opinion on the God question at all before that.
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B is a common species of christian. John is so right about the “good cop/bad cop” thing.
alas, B’s religion is based on sadistic fantasies of torture, nothing less.
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And I think he recognizes that, and tries to atone for it. He’s (mostly) harmless, but between him being cloyingly sweet, yet still mistaken, I felt he deserved a reply for butting into someone else’s debate. 😦
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Sorry club, you have me confused with the majority of Christians who subscribe to an Eternal Conscious Torment they call hell. There are those of us of the christian variety who dont find concrete, sokkid support for it either in scripture or the character of God. They’re welcome to this “torturous” belief, but I’m a hard pass on it, thank you very much. -Barabbas
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B, as has been demonstrated, you are just another christian who makes up his own version. Yep, you pick and choose through your bible to ignore the bits about eternal torture.
Nothing new here at all, just the typical christian who claims to have the “Truth” but just has what he’s made up.
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Beliefs need not be based on life experiences, but if they are not, they can embrace myth, fantasy or mere imagination. There are secular bible scholars, one of the most notable being Bart Ehrman. His work is rigorous, common-sensed, and plainly expressed. How the bible as we know it came to be is eye-opening for anyone willing to honestly consider that knowledge. Here is a sample link. https://youtu.be/AuyVVJOwzJo
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I bought one of Bart’s books, before I discovered that he has about 20. Neither my wallet, nor my bookshelf can afford them all. Thanx. 🙂
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actually have a few of ehrmans books on my shelf too
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Bart has many videos, free on YouTube, and there is an advantage to that form. He, a former evangelical, comes across as a brilliant but plain-spoken expert on the actual, non-ideological history of the Bible.
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I can get most of them free, from the library. 😀
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For an Atheist, you seem to know more about God than most Christians.
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Sad, but true. It’s not that I know more about God. It’s that I know a lot about Christians’ claims about God. Like many other Atheists, I am not intellectually or religiously isolated. I investigate. If any claim is true, I (we) truly, seriously, want to know. They say that you have to kiss a lot of frogs to get a prince. I’ve listened to a lot of frogs croak – still no Prince. 😛
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Boy, you’re an ornery old dude. Keep it up.
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